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Chapters

  • 00:19 Paris Transforms
  • 05:00 Military and Logistics
  • 07:37 Logistics Transforms the World
  • 14:45 Flags of Convenience
  • 17:36 Cruise of Convenience
  • 22:22 Speeding Up Goods and Death
  • 24:53 Driving Faster Logistics
  • 41:25 Security of Logistics
  • 55:42 Workers are Threats
  • 59:15 Borders are Threats
  • 1:01:38 Democracy and Pirates
  • 1:08:15 What Can We Do?

(Sorry this transcription sucks. It's a machine translation and we're working on manually editing it to be perfect. Bear with us in the meantime!)


David Torcivia:

[0:00] I'm David Torcivia.

Daniel Forkner:

[0:02] I'm Daniel Forkner.

David Torcivia:

[0:03] And this is Ashes Ashes, a show about systemic issues, cracks in civilization, collapse of the environment, and if we're unlucky the end of the world.

Daniel Forkner:

[0:12] But if we learn from all this maybe we can stop that. The world might be broken, but it doesn't have to be.

[0:21] Napoleon survey Paris and felt disappointed. Esau is crowded dirty chaotic and developmentally stunted compared to seduce like London which had aesthetically pleasing parks and modern infrastructure. So in 1853 Napoleon hired a man named George Eugene haussmann to radically transform the city. Houseman did many things you made the first detailed map of Paris and he established a new bureaucratic institution to centralize all planning projects you planted trees and prove the sewage system and installed gaslighting. But he also demolished over 12,000 buildings and displaced thousands of people from their homes to make way for long and wide quarters a move that many have criticized as ripping the historical heart out of Paris.

David Torcivia:

[1:13] These corridors were delivered before Houseman was hired another Frenchman was Waging War against Guerrilla fighters in Algeria as part of French colonialism, bubble vest Frenchman's Army outnumbered Algerian peasant Fighters 10 to 1 he was still losing then he discovered that if he plowed through home neighborhoods and homes segregated the people with the roads on which military convoys could be deployed suddenly became much easier to control the populace and this is exactly what Houseman did with these Paris corridors.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:45] The roads allow domestic military forces to rapidly respond to the complaints of working-class people the roads also segmented the population, weakening the organizing power of Working Class People as well as segregating the wealthy from the poor and these changes took place at a time when the rail infrastructure around France was rapidly expanding. And part of the new layout was aimed to integrate with this new infrastructure.

David Torcivia:

[2:11] And for all the outrage against Houseman for these changes this transformation helped Paris involve into a quote modern. Not only would be necessary to maintain the type of order the Empire wanted to impose domestically but the segregation of people have the military role in that are important characteristics for any City that wants to be an important Link in the modern Logistics chain.

Daniel Forkner:

[2:33] Okay David I think we need to hit the pause button right here because, we're talking about Paris were foreshadowing Logistics and that's a very strange Topic in the context of slavery and especially Following part 1 where we talked about. The slave camps that people are part of chopping down trees and Mining Rock.

David Torcivia:

[2:51] Pirates don't forget Pirates.

Daniel Forkner:

[2:52] Oh yeah Will Pirates that's also an important thing we talked about last week that's going to return this week as well and look before we get into this part 2, I think it's important to point out at the beginning that the way that this discussion starts out it may seem unrelated to the topic of slavery, but the go here's the kind of highlight this very important underlying structure of our world and that is the system of moving goods from one place to another we talked last week a bit about the slavery involved in the bottom of the supply chain write the mining of a rock that then Works its way up onto a retail shelf or The Cutting of a tree that gets made into charcoal that melt iron that then finds itself in our car, but there is not enough discussion about the work that goes into the establishment and maintenance of Supply change themselves. The industry that makes the supply chains possible it's a system that in so many ways has been hidden in plain sight, and simply accepted I think across the board is a very natural and necessary process and the Eeveelution of civilization, what is we start to explore some of the history of logistics. And its place in the world it should become more clear as we go forward how this system plays into this very terrible practice of slavery.

David Torcivia:

[4:09] But maybe even more importantly Daniel I think this topic is a window into the future and that's always here at a dark future unfortunately, and it may not seem scary at first I mean we're just talk about logistics here that's business how scary can it be for the implications of organizing the world at the segments separated intentionally from each other. Securing the segments with things like surveillance guns technology all for the sake of ensuring that there never any interruptions and it's full of goods will a scary implications for all of us especially those of us break their backs to make this system work.

Daniel Forkner:

[4:46] A lot of these Concepts about logistics that we're going to be talking about today comes from a book by Deborah Cohen it's called, the deadly life of logistics mapping violence in global trade which was by the way recommended by a listener so thank you for that.

Military And Logistics [5:01] Show me back to this Paris example what's so interesting about the way Paris was transformed is that it kind of foreshadows the way military and Logistics go hand-in-hand. The quarters that cut through Paris and Algeria neighborhoods allow people and equipment to flow rapidly through the system just like trade quarters today allow containers of shoes to transfer quickly from Factory to retail store and at the same time it took forced to construct these quarters in the first place The Ripping down of buildings to displacing of people and many, opposed the construction of the system then we see parallels there with the modern Logistics quarters that were building all over the world.

David Torcivia:

[5:42] But of course Logistics has always played an important role in military. Sun Tzu wrote extensively about Logistics in his very famous Art of War many Greek and Roman armies were organized based solely on their logistical needs, Alexander the Great Place huge emphasis on Logistics I hate you did things like reducing the number of horses and his armies to help reduce the need for supplies and what Stephen said quote. And Napoleon he was also obsessed with Logistics in 1795 offered a money reward for anyone who can invent a better way to preserve food so that he could field larger armies and I'll have to worry about constantly have to feed them and what did this give us well modern metal food cans that's what this created you see how important very quickly Logistics are and why we'll just take his always been important to Warfare it's significance was equal to things like strategy and tactics in fact these are the three essential components of War, but everything to change during World War 1 with the introduction of petroleum oil and lubricants, and by Woodward Logistics itself was what determined above everything else the success or failure of armies.

Daniel Forkner:

[7:01] Churchill set of the war quote above all petrol governs every movement in the quote Adolf Hitler said quote to fight we must have oil for our machine. General Patton said the officer who doesn't know his Communications and Supply as well as his tactics is totally useless. A Navy Admiral and McCormick said quote Logistics is all of War making except shooting the guns releasing the bombs in firing the torpedoes, and of Desert Storm a US Lieutenant General simply said forget Logistics you lose.

David Torcivia:

[7:34] Okay I think we're getting the point here Daniel.

Daniel Forkner:

[7:37] The quotes on Logistics are in this but all this is important because the military's emphasis on Logistics is what has led to a radical transformation of our world,

Logistics Transforms The World [7:46] a transformation like the one in Paris but occurring now on a global scale and these changes have huge implications for the people they in pack.

David Torcivia:

[7:55] Okay so we'll just became more and more important to military functions after World War II in the invention of the shipping container by he was forces for Vietnam this very quickly became standardized across international shipping. From there just about Dan every single Logistics operation worldwide. And still around 1960 and number of factors came together at once and forever changed the way business operated this was the logistics Revolution before the Revolution businesses thought of distribution production in very simple terms that mean production was a place where you had a factory, and you made Goods which it's whatever distribution was when you delivered that good from your Warehouse to the store. Tell it to shipping it from point A to point B simple as her transportation that was its own separate ain't even worried about that but then a few things changed. We saw the introduction of something called the systems theory which originated actually from a biology science and it found its way into the business world. Business people began looking at their process he's not industry Parts but doesn't Tire systems be helping him with depend on every single interlinking piece. At the same time the rise of computers made it possible to actually calculate all these possibilities I can never be worked out by hand. Very quickly Consultants figured out that the cost of delivering a good went Way Beyond the symbol fuel cost of driving it from the warehouse to the store. The cost of delivering a Goodman volved well I mean technically everything the business did.

Daniel Forkner:

[9:21] In what the business does encompasses so many things were before using that very discreet. Production versus distribution versus Transportation model of logistics. The calculation might be okay we have to move 50 widgets from our warehouse at Point a and we have to move them to point B what's the cheapest way to get them there but under this now total cost systems thinking apply to Logistics that question got turned on its head in the relevant question is no longer how do we get 50 widgets from point A to point B but should we even be making 50 widgets should we even have a warehouse in point a in the first place where should our supplies be coming from what's our customer service how many warehouses should we have total and all these get put against each other in very complex algorithms to give you the best possible prophets scenario.

[10:14] So all these things historically were separate from distribution but now they became part of the distribution system and type everything a business did is now considered into the distribution equation and what computers made it possible to conceptualize Logistics as a total system the invention of the container that you looted to David made it a reality, because I'm the same way that Logistics was historically important to military but took centre-stage only after World War II when we had new technology Logistics involved from a business consideration to an entire industry that enables modern companies to exist, in large part thanks to these new technologies that make Intermodal Transportation much easier that results in standardization across the board, and it's not huge implications for conceptions of geography and space the people in those spaces and the people who made up Logistics labor as even basic concepts like the factory took on new identities. You see the factories no longer a building someplace where a good is produced The Factory is stretched across multiple locations.

David Torcivia:

[11:20] I mean there's all this sounds really complicated when we spell it out like this but these are things at this point that I think most of us understand and Nate Lee, like we've heard the term supply chain we understand this concept that all our laptops are phones are cars are made in lots of little different pieces scattered all around the world their symbol somewhere else maybe their symbol in Mexico or the United States or China wherever put together and they finally make the way to us we are like a factory it just makes every single piece of you know a phone or a car right there one place it's not practical anymore the factories are Global at this point and the transportation between these factories are part of these massive comparable to the name of it that way but also just Logistics process that enables is queued globalized supply chain.

Daniel Forkner:

[12:04] So if you're looking at Logistics as a total system and you're using computer system algorithms to help you figure out the best way to orient this system. And it encompasses every single function of a business the will to make changes that result in massive disruptions to people in the places where they live with that decision becomes much easier see if a multinational company can save cost. Boost profits by some X percent by moving a warehouse from point A to point B or by expanding the land under its control at some port. It's going to do that does this system thinking consider whether location B might be on land in dispute between local government and Indigenous groups. It's likely that it's just going to steamroll over both of these groups especially considering how this system is intertwined with military function. And isn't many ways supported by the full force of the military the US in particular in protecting and maintaining the system something will get to later on in the show.

David Torcivia:

[13:03] Okay you got to be asking yourself at this point David Daniel what are you doing I thought the show was going to continuing our conversation on slavery that's why I'm here cuz I can't wait to hear the positive show about slavery today right well I promise that this is all going to tie back in together and to understand slavery today dumbest and our global economy you really have to understand Logistics which is why we have this introduction here, and the vast majority of what makes Logistics work is things like shipping Intermodal transport and and don't really understand how these function that enabled is a giant Global I system that creates a slavery that we talked about it last.

[13:46] Deregulation of the shipping industry is of actually the ships themselves of the Intermodal transport that carries the supplies from the ships to rail or whatever other system that's going out and this had a huge effects on individuals some of which are funds today into what is functional slavery.

Daniel Forkner:

[14:03] Deregulation and in some cases the lack of Regulation play such an important role in the expansion of logistics around the world the major.

[14:21] Is declined significantly in the trucking sectors workers lost 5.7 billion dollars in that first 10 years. Workers in Telecom lost 5.1 billion dollars Airline workers lost 3.4 billion and railroad workers 1.2 billion.

David Torcivia:

[14:38] And once again it's a lot of numbers so let's look at some specific examples particularly at first and how deregulation affect of the shipping industry.

Flags Of Convenience

Daniel Forkner:

[14:45] David let me introduce you to the idea of flags of convenience on sea vessels in this is where the show starts to get a little bit more interesting in and where we get back on track with this topic of slavery so if you own a business okay. Now that's a the purpose of this business is to service a shell company through which we can hide our assets from the music industry looking to collect on that 1 billion dollar fun.

David Torcivia:

[15:09] I'm way ahead of you all this Daniel.

Daniel Forkner:

[15:12] Yeah but on the face of it the stated purpose of this company is to ship towels for Target from ports and China to ports in California okay. Your company is American you conduct business out of an office United States. And to get this business running you purchase a ship so you put the American flag on your ship right.

David Torcivia:

[15:34] Not only am I putting an American flag on the ship down on painting the whole whole in the stars and bars baby let's go America.

Daniel Forkner:

[15:41] David that is a terrible idea that you do not want to do that.

David Torcivia:

[15:44] Is this like anesthetic thing Daniel have a problem with all this red white and blue or like what tell me look like.

Daniel Forkner:

[15:49] That's not necessarily aesthetic but if we put the American flag on your ship that means that we have to obey American laws we don't want that.

David Torcivia:

[15:58] Oh okay I asked you where you going with this weight why don't we want to follow American laws.

Daniel Forkner:

[16:05] Well think about it this way if we're going to be in the shipping industry where it's very competitive and we're trying to make some money what we want to do is find a country with really lacks labor laws it won't make us pay our workers very much you see what I'm.

David Torcivia:

[16:18] Yeah okay I like where your mind is gone.

Daniel Forkner:

[16:20] They're not going to give us a hard time that kind of thing.

David Torcivia:

[16:23] Okay yeah.

Daniel Forkner:

[16:24] And so we want to register our ship under their.

David Torcivia:

[16:26] Okay now we're thinking like business people let's keep going with this.

Daniel Forkner:

[16:29] And that is what a flag of convenience is even though I'm an American Business I want to conveniently register my ship with a different country that way I'm only subject to their laws are not American. And that is why I today the largest ship registry in the world is Panama and you'll never guess the second-largest so David I'm not even going to quiz you on this one.

David Torcivia:

[16:49] Is it the Republic of Marshall Islands.

Daniel Forkner:

[16:51] Wow David you are a genius.

David Torcivia:

[16:54] Just a random gas but.

Daniel Forkner:

[16:56] Yeah I'm sure it was but you're right the second most common flag or a ship to fly is a small group of coral atolls. Pacific Ocean it's the Republic of Marshall Islands it has a population of just 53,000 people, and despite all the trade that were involved in just 1% of the world's ships are registered with the United States.

David Torcivia:

[17:17] So let's look at a way that these flags of convenience have very real effects on individuals on board these ships, and I mean a typical container ship has a very small crew I mean even when he's super tankers 10 to 11 people maybe 20 people especially large one it and it's the others labor violations but they're not affect any huge amount of people on board but where these lack labor laws really start being a problem on ships with huge amounts of employees on that and there no ships with more people working on them.

Cruise Of Convenience [17:46] Then in the cruise industry the real quick just in the cruise industry 77% of the cruise ship Market is controlled by just three companies. Each of them are American companies and they're all headquartered in Miami.

Daniel Forkner:

[17:58] Well not for long David not when that ocean rise while is Miami black guess they'll just move up the coast.

David Torcivia:

[18:03] Or you just keep moving up higher and higher on the skyscrapers and it's just fuck the people below you but anyway companies owned will they registered under foreign countries Carnival Cruise Lines for example register under Panama and Liberia and Carnival coincidentally also has some of the worst labor complaints made against.

Daniel Forkner:

[18:27] And they do this of course because it allows them to use exploited labor the today one third of all workers on cruise ships are Filipino they come from the Philippines. And their working conditions are brutal. Before being accepted as employees workers must sign contracts they often don't understand the stipulate their pay around $450 per month regardless of the numbers of hours they were. And in signing the agreement they often waive the right to seek damages under us law if anything happens to them once they get on the ship it's common for men and women to be worked well past the hours agree to even in these contracts. And when they get injured which is common but I think there's over 4,500 cruise ship workers that are sent over land to doctors each month.

David Torcivia:

[19:14] Which of course doesn't even count all the ones that have treated on board there's really no numbers at all for this so we have no idea how common that is.

Daniel Forkner:

[19:21] Brightwell Wendy's workers go to the doctors they learned that they agreed to lopsided deals in the event of injury in some cases medical records are withheld from workers and doctors which are on cruise ship payroll are incentivised to recommend them for work even when they are not. To work and like I said the hours can be brutal often times they're forced to work every single day pulling 80 hours a week for as little as a dollar 75 an hour, one worker describes working for Carnival as quote it's like you're in a jail but you're earning money, and quote and to be clear when this worker says he's earning money he's actually talking about a lot of the side hustles and workers come up with in their spare time. Impromptu Barbershop operations in in DVD rental services in tattoo parlors all working out of their tiny bumps at the bottom of the Seas cruise ship.

David Torcivia:

[20:12] So I mean a dollar 75 an hour is what these people are being paid more or less it and because they're technically salaried for practically no money it gets aside from the from the idea of minimum wage or something these are American companies that are paying these bore employees a dollar 75 an hour on cruise ships they cannot leave often times with very complicated contract that it's difficult to impossible to get out of without forfeiting a large amount of this pay this is functional slavery today and you'll notice a lot of these workers are Filipinos and what does because the practice of exploiting these people's labor is something that is carried over from traditional American imperialism with in the Philippines and said that the Philippines ESPN American colony the u.s. Navy used huge amounts of the Filipino workers as Maids at Stewart's to Serve American officers on their ships and today that he was maybe no longer uses this very low-cost Labour from the Philippines to augment the sailors that are on board Filipino still make up a huge majority of people washing dishes and cleaning rooms on private American ships well below these American weight standards which bar dimension, so we like to think we've moved past this. Of colonialism and imperialism forward directly removing well from one nation and transferring it to these conquering Nation.

Daniel Forkner:

[21:28] Often using slavery to do the.

David Torcivia:

[21:30] Yeah of course I mean that's a good point but it's so much about removing natural resources and explaining the local labor to do just that well as we transition to weigh so much from this natural resource exploitation especially in a quote developed economy like you seen America where things are Focus so much on services on technical products it's no longer so much about directly removing is raw natural resources it's about taking. Cheap pool of Labor putting it somewhere else and using that as your pool of service of exploiting these people because of a variety of conditions in their homeland of loopholes and international laws of ways of screwing around American labor practices, and creating a functional huge under class of slaves built on the backs of not-too-distant imperialism. All to serve people Mojitos and other ridiculous drinks on cruise ship.

Speeding Up Goods And Death

Daniel Forkner:

[22:23] And to get back to this Logistics discussion I mean part of the reason or discussing this is to highlight how this global system of moving Goods it no longer just impacts a native population somewhere else that were exploding but. Any worker who now finds themselves in this system of logistics is now subject to the force is required to maintain the system and its most efficient form, and that means that workers right here at home whether we're in the United States or in Europe or wherever we might think of ourselves as a rich developed country that has you know progressive labor laws and protections these people are going to be affected in these places, it's so as the transformation of logistics from discrete functions to a total system that encompasses every business process has progressed massive efforts have gone into making Logistics Lobel seamless and faster and faster at circulating.

[23:31] Jordan 8 Intermodal routes but there's another way and that's to isolate the workers within the system Target ones that are more vulnerable than others with things like that traps, like we talked about last week and then make them work faster longer and for Less pay let's look at that for a second right here in the United States. We did mention that in the United States workers lost a ton of wealth from the 80s to the 90s on the heels of deregulation but another thing they loss and continue to lose, health and safety a result of this need to keep the flow of goods circulating faster and faster.

David Torcivia:

[24:06] When we traditionally think about dangerous jobs I mean the one that everyone always in meetings just as like oh police officers that's dangerous that's deadly that's nothing compared to how many people are killed annually, in the transportation and mature move an occupation that that's what it's actually called by the Bureau of Labor Statistics but this build a moving object from point A to point B Logistics of bringing products from factories effusion centers to the stores to buy them from and ultimately your door steps when you order them, this represents 25% of all u.s. work-related deaths, is field it's huge it a huge amount of people die each year in this building is getting worse every single year. If I California has raped warehousing and trucking the state's highest Hazard occupation.

Daniel Forkner:

[24:53] So let's look at one of these jobs about David the short Haul truck drivers the move goes from California's two main ports and into nearby warehouses

Driving Faster Logistics [25:02] these are the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. In real quick to clarify some of these people that were talking about including these Filipino workers and cruise ships the truck drivers that we're about to discuss the fees are not included in those slavery figures that we quoted last week that 40 million people who are hard slaves around the world that does not include the type of people were discussing in this show, it's a USA Today did a year-long investigation into the conditions of short haul trucker serving the Port of Los Angeles and Long Beach.

David Torcivia:

[25:33] This this sounds really boring but I highly recommend you read this article if you find any this interesting it's a fabulous piece of investigative journalism and really a lot of respect to the journalist at USA Today that did this it's a great piece.

Daniel Forkner:

[25:45] What is mind-blowing David I couldn't believe the things that I was reading that this was actually happening right here in the United States. Anyway let's get into it so these ports are responsible for 50% of all retail store Imports that are coming into the United States, and a trucker's move this car go from the port to warehouses near by where the goods can then be sorted and distributed from there to Regional Warehouse is across the United States, and what the investigation found is that trucking companies have for a long time now in forcing drivers to take on massive debt, in the form of non-negotiable lease-to-own contracts for their trucks and then using that that as Leverage to get drivers to work well past the federal limit of 11 hours each day was some truckers having to drive 20 hours each day 6 days a week. Owners and managers have even physically prevented drivers from going home.

David Torcivia:

[26:40] So how does this debt work and where does it come from. In 2008 California passed a new law requiring Truck Center the ports to be up-to-date with cleaner engines.

Daniel Forkner:

[26:51] Sounds reasonable sofa.

David Torcivia:

[26:53] Yeah what are you really glad this is a good law the diesel fumes from these ports were highly toxic is bad for the workers there's bad for people who live close to the port and this was a law that was intended to make everybody's lives it's actually better.

Daniel Forkner:

[27:05] And he's all trucks they were really concentrated in this area because. Being a lot of these trucks were not capable of Going the Distance on Long distribution routes but they could stand the very short-haul backroad routes that these drivers dead from Port. Initial warehouse and a lot of people who wouldn't be able to afford those really nice trucks could afford some of these Clunkers or lack of better or worse.

David Torcivia:

[27:32] Yeah exactly and he's route to there's a lot of idling waiting in lines waiting for you to be loaded until the diesel fumes at up and today introduced this law to try and clean up the air and make Everybody's Health a little bit better. What this meant that 16000 trucks needed to be replaced almost overnight. The trucking companies instead of accepting the cost of upgrading their own equipment devise a method instead to pass the cost on to individual drivers themselves. So what happened is this the company's Finance the trucks and then told their drivers they have to sign lease to own contracts on the new trucks or be fired. Mean drivers went from owning their own.

Daniel Forkner:

[28:18] Every week drivers make money based on the number of containers that they deliver not the hours they work and then their company subtracts out the lease payment on their truck the insurance that they're overcharging the drivers for, gas that they put in their tank in any repairs the trucks need so that at the end of the week some drivers who work 20 hours Willow their company money. Or will take home a paltry sum not sufficient to feed their family.

David Torcivia:

[28:45] You listen to this I really couldn't figure out what actually these companies are even doing like what what this point does it make him their drivers pay for the truck, it may take drivers pay for the gas they make their drivers pay for the insurance. Like what else are they doing and they only like a headquarters and they're paying for themselves I guess when the drivers are paying for all the cost of the company it's like what the what the hell is the point of I'm sorry been kinda makes me angry but.

Daniel Forkner:

[29:12] David what you don't understand is that these managers are very educated you see they set up the contract they make the phone calls this is not something that a or recently immigrated worker in America could do they just aren't educated you see it.

David Torcivia:

[29:26] Oh I see well I've been because of this these drivers just put up with the abuse and felt they couldn't escape because of the thousands of dollars they already put towards owning this new truck. And is part of the contract companies make them sign the company can fire the driver at any time and take that truck back so even if I owe under $300,000 in the truck. And I work and I paying this truck off every single week and I paid $99,000 towards this truck, and then for whatever reason coming inside the fire me while I'm one payment away my last payment of this truck I lose out all that money I lose out on my truck. And it was at a $99,000 to come to keeps Olive.

Daniel Forkner:

[30:06] I just want to point out that many of the major retailers that are Contracting with these trucks these are companies like Target Walmart TJX which owns TJ Maxx and all this they have come out publicly and said how Innovative and forward-looking these policies are. And then when they're question about this practice they say oh we're not responsible for that that's the truck companies that employ the labor we have nothing to do with that but go on David.

David Torcivia:

[30:29] One of the ways to split up practically, is it in one case a driver's truck broke down and because he made so little as well as $0.67 for one whole week of work despite working well of the legal limits prescribed for truck drivers, well he could not afford the repairs which I guess the truck drivers are also responsible for and the company fired him and sees his truck to spite him having already pay the company $75,000 towards owning that very truck, all that went down the drain all the money gone other drivers have been fired and Heather truck seized for refusing to work illegal hours. When drivers truck was taken after he went home to bury his dead mother.

Daniel Forkner:

[31:07] I'm beginning to see how these companies thought of the system that innovative.

David Torcivia:

[31:12] Yeah I mean if you were the company that is doing the logistics process sees this is great this is the Innovation this is disruption of an industry to take my profitable industry. All my cost off me and onto my employees and then I'm going to scooper Bowl EXs profit from that and I mean what a great business model imagine feels like this military you know like we're going to pay you to be a soldier but you have to supply your gun your bullets you need to pay for your own tank edit that thing gets damaged well you know like you're out of luck but you got to pay his back for the tank like what that's crazy if you apply this to any other industry I really shows just how completely psychotic these business practices are.

Daniel Forkner:

[31:52] You mentioned disrupting the industry and that's so interesting because so often, what it means to disrupt an industry from you know this startup culture entrepreneur jargon of creative destruction or destruction or whatever it's all about creating new paradigm and I imagine that a lot of these companies when we discover labor practices like this will complain what were competing with companies all over the world we have to do something to cut cost. But what I what occurs to me is were talking about this is that in exploiting their workers like this these companies can better compete for contracts, and that means that this practice itself is going to drive down the rates that are charged for these trucking services which means that it threatens to become the new standard, not just in California but globally and that's a scary application to me because it means once you lock these types of rates in and it's just assumed across the board, that all trucking companies are all shipping Industries can make this happen can make these rates work for business then it becomes that much harder to undo all this exploitation because now it's baked into the way the industry Opera.

[33:00] Anna and I wonder David if we looked at the history of economic progress. I wonder how much of that we would find maybe a lot of the economic growth and expansion that we experience is not just a result of magic technologies that we invent as the narrative would tell us but perhaps it is, finding new quote on quote innovative ways to squeeze more and more out of the labor that's actually doing all the work. And then making that the new standard so that it becomes impossible to go back to where we were before.

David Torcivia:

[33:30] But this is the United States we have Labor Law practices and the things that these trucking companies are doing well and I think they're definitively illegal or least skirting the edge of these labor laws and so over a thousand workers that does spark have filed suit against their companies and in 97% of these cases to decide with the worker ruling the companies are illegally classifying their drivers as independent contractors in order millions of back pay to be delivered to the workers the victory for the American legal system right well not so fast most never see this money because these shipping companies of home the science of transferring assets to new companies filing bankruptcy with the old one discharging the debt dissolving any continuing business as usual.

Daniel Forkner:

[34:15] This is one of the more angering aspects of this report which is just literally nothing to worker can do even when the judge clearly says look, you stolen money from this work and again 97% of the cases this is what the judge is concluding, company you stolen money from these workers you owe them back pay sometimes it's hundreds of thousands of dollars for each individual driver the owners of these companies don't even try that hard to obscure what they're doing one in fact opened a new company under his mother transferred all the trucks to that company and like you said file bankruptcy with the old one and then came to all the workers and said look I have no money to pay you take $7,000 or walk away and what choice do they have.

David Torcivia:

[34:58] In the larger conversation we're having about slavery in this episode and over last week a lot of the answers are always will have labor laws that prevent these abuses, if it's illegal to exploit people in these ways will they won't be able to shut down slavery. Because the judicial system the legal system is there to help the Everyman to help us fight back against those who decide to abuse others with the power in the violence of the state behind them. What is this is happening in the United States into slavery occurs here at home despite the labor laws that people have fought for have died for in many cases. Will the ones that say about our economic system that continues to creepy sea.

[35:52] Because of other loopholes within that very legal system itself, there is no justice for the exploited and so this exploitation this functional slavery continues and will continue to benefit as the purchasers of these products that are only made possible until cheap they are because of dysfunctional slavery.

Daniel Forkner:

[36:12] Another thing comes to mind David in episode 5 we talked about infrastructure and how a lot of the new laws that municipalities pass to try and deal with infrastructure is really just a transfer of the cost from municipalities to individuals themselves I think your example was small cities ripping up there asphalt road to save on road maintenance costs but what that ultimately does it means that anyone that drives on those roads, is going to incur more maintenance problems on their car they're going to have to pay for that and so it's really a transfer of cost and it occurs to me that the same thing is happening to these drivers because they are treated as independent contractors they're responsible for all the repairs and maintenance on their trucks there fuel their own insurance not to mention things like health care and they're paid not by the hours they work but the containers that they actually deliver well as the cost that are rising all around us like infrastructure will these cost of going to fall directly on these drivers, when cities cannot afford to fix potholes these workers have to take even more out of their paycheck to fix their trucks and in the same way, even the burden of this Federal limit that you're not allowed to drive past the certain number of hours when we collectively still blame these drivers when they go over these limits. If a federal agent catches a driver, going past the federal limit it's the driver that's on the hook and even when you read articles about truck drivers all across the country they're referred to so often this owner operator.

[37:41] In what article I read it said David that owner-operators want a skirt this Federal limit so that they can take advantage of lucrative nighttime routes, and they're putting us all at danger and they're putting us all at risk that is true they are putting us at risk I mean there's an estimated 8.3% of the total traffic coming from Justice California ports is with drivers exceeding. Federal daily hour limit but that's part of this Logistics system we have to speed it up we have to keep people working that puts us at risk that puts the driver at risk because they don't get any sleep but then we shift all the responsibility onto this individual worker who's being physically barred from entering the parking lot at their jobs they're being threatened with a loss of a job if they refuse to work the hours that their bosses are demanding them, but those bosses are not responsible they're not on the hook at least not in practice.

David Torcivia:

[38:34] You know looking at all this and he's like huge very obvious labor abuse I mean people are being paid $0.67 for weeks worth of Labor. You're in the United States that's that's crazy and it's it's it's interesting how there's so little outrageous about this this was a huge store USA Today bro Andre Little Penny things change and I've hardly seen anybody talk about it since this came out I mean last week we talked about the the Hawaiian Fishers this was another huge story that the Associated Press broke of this slavery that's happening off the coast of Hawaii and once again there's very little outrageous about it no one talks about it and it's really interesting how like we talked about in the fashion history episode that we here in the United States for example can become very superficially outraged and conscious about Labor abuse in places like Bangladesh Halfway Around the World what in a lot of ways we have a harder time recognizing the labor abuse occurring in our own neighborhoods in our own ports occurring just off our coasts. And I wonder if that's part of the propaganda that if you're an American you have the opportunity to work hard and make it. And we don't have a class or race division that everybody has before them the opportunity to survive and build a better life. And anything that comes and conflicts with this popular narrative that were sold from the very first moments of our education well we brush it aside ignored and say it's probably their own fault they must be doing something wrong because the system itself guarantees that I can move up. Or at least that's what I'm told.

Daniel Forkner:

[40:02] And that propaganda is necessary, you mentioned the Bangladeshi garment factories it's very easy even when we have public outrage here in the United States or in Europe or a company like H&M or Zara to just say oh yeah that's right we discovered that and we fixed it, and we have no choice but to Simply believe them because we don't live there we don't recognize that all they did was open up a factory that they can use as like a front for inspections while all the real work is done a block away in Shadow factories we don't know that because we don't live there, and I think that does highlights again this point we made in last week about as long as we want Global products at our fingertips no matter where we go we're going to have slavery that's part of it because things that don't come out of our community, are much harder to trace in terms of where they come from and what was involved in making them in as long as it's very difficult to Tracy types of things when we all have busy lives we're not going to be able to cover all our bases we're not going to be able to discover all the labor abuse it's going on and when we do discover one thing it can just be shifted somewhere else meanwhile the labor abuses that happened right here in our own neighborhood like you said David would that's covered up by the propaganda it's not the system that's failing these people is them they are the owner operator they are individuals they have the ability to succeed they're just lazy they're trying to cheat their it whatever we come up with.

[41:24] And this trucker story is awful but to really understand why these workers are being exploited the way they are in the context of maintain.

Security Of Logistics [41:43] Yours is that entertained a bigger and brighter Spotlight from the eyes of National Security, be in the same way that Logistics became the Forefront of military strategy after World War 1 & 2 Logistics has become the primary driver of economic growth it's the glue that holds the global economy together, and for that reason because the economy is so important to us as a nation expanding and maintaining Logistics is the defining purpose now of National Security. And maybe that sounds a little bit confusing again we're talking about trucks were talking about ships.

David Torcivia:

[42:19] Talk about people driving trucks people working on this ship.

Daniel Forkner:

[42:23] What does it mean for this industry this process to now be at the Forefront of National Security.

David Torcivia:

[42:30] National Security one of my favorite topics but something we haven't really gotten into that much yet on this show and they'll believe me all of this is coming, I'm very great definitely the future episodes but when we talk about National Security who are the enemies that come to mind I mean right now it's terrorists bombs plane hijackers Amy Rogan Nations building nuclear weapons or aspiring to are threats National Security but the reason they're threats might not be what you think.

[43:03] To the situation really change after September 11th 2001 airports were shut down in the short term border security has decreased dramatically in the long run and there has been a rise of a conflict between ideals of National Security and what happened in international trade there's a tension between those want to make Society more quote secure from Attack and those who want the flow of goods to continue circulating around the world without interruption but the importance of trade economic growth resolves distension itself. It becomes clear that we can have security entry at the same time by just confirming the goal of security to the systems that enable this circulation of good, to rephrase all this down to one simple statement the priority of national security has evolved to protecting the circulation of goods. Security means maintaining these blows and enabling them to flow faster that's why we see policies carried out in the name of security that decrease the time it takes for cargo to clear custom borders policies at standardized security protocols at ports around the world and policies that in general do in the political borders irrelevant to the flow of goods at the same time that these borders are being made more difficult for people to cross, National Security is not about protecting people it's about protecting container boxes and all the times at the direct expense of the security of people's rights.

Daniel Forkner:

[44:26] Okay so getting back to that question you asked at the beginning David who are the enemies of National Security and in this context under this new paradigm. Anything that would or could potentially disrupt the movement of goods and Justice rupt economic growth will that is the enemy, and that encompasses so much A diversity of scenarios from the natural environment hurricanes earthquakes things like power grid disruptions infrastructure failures all of these threatened National Security if National Security is about protecting the flow of good that means terrorist are also enemies of our national security Pirates which will get to put things that you might not expect which we would traditionally think of us being protect. By our political institutions things like native populations who have wait what am I saying that native populations I've never been protected under our political institution.

David Torcivia:

[45:21] Come on Danny this is a fact-based show.

Daniel Forkner:

[45:24] The people who have claims to land those threatened the flow of goods because we might need to move our Goods through their land Wildlife that's a threat.

David Torcivia:

[45:33] Political borders one of my favorite.

Daniel Forkner:

[45:35] Right because if I have to move a container box of shoes from country to Country beat will that border is a barrier that that's getting in my way and related to that is democracy itself, we'll get to that in a little bit. And last but not least and certainly not all inclusive is the worker themselves these people that make up the system they are perhaps the greatest threat. To Logistics because they are the ones most intimately connected with it and they are the labor by which this Logistics system moves and the cost of their labor, Define how efficient and how profitable that system can be which of course is the goal from the very beginning in an increasingly globalized World vulnerabilities and risks explode out exponentially for any standardized system that's attempting to connect every place. Every group to Justin Tyme production and distribution and trying to control for those wrist means that we need to isolate every component with in and around that system. Strip it of self-determination so staying on the topic of workers and how they represent threats to National Security here's a quote. From pricewaterhousecooper a consulting company that deliver their opinion on the security of Supply chains worldwide.

David Torcivia:

[46:51] Attacks on Supply chains are often looking for a big return on a small investment. Because they're so vital to trade flow budgets and cubs like airports or ports off of the ideal Target. Possible consequences of disrupting Logistics hub for example taking a look at the Port strike in 2002 29 ports on the US West Coast were locked out due to a labor strike of 10500. Workers to strike in a massive impact on the US economy proximately 1 billion dollars was lost per day to take more than 6 months to recover.

Daniel Forkner:

[47:24] So this is a consulting company that's framing a labor dispute that happened in the United States as a quote attack on supply chain.

David Torcivia:

[47:33] Yeah and then we're going to get into some examples of these labor at impacts in just a second but. Just a couple months ago we saw a full shutdown of the Brazilian economy because of a strike of truck drivers it got to the point where it's not only just the government but individuals were calling for military direct Intervention basically calling the military in a modern state to attack truck drivers that this was like a common thing people are saying it's like some people are suggesting a military coup in order to bring trucks back so they get fuel to get supplies, that is like the reality that these labor interruptions can bring out and it did almost seems to be an act of war in some people's eyes so much so that they're willing to call on the military to step in and do something about it.

Daniel Forkner:

[48:14] That's a great example David why don't we take a step back then and look at a couple examples from American history when it comes to labor and Military intervention and how that has evolved over time. So to American Titans of Industry Andrew Carnegie and John D Rockefeller both had openly violent relationships with their work.

David Torcivia:

[48:36] Okay so Aunt Andrew Carnegie well we all know the story of him but he regularly employed this group of people called the Pinkerton detective agency which was at the time quite literally a private Army despite the name, and use them to Quail strikes at his factories and this culminated in the most famous event called the Homestead Strike 1892 in which over 3,000 steel mill workers went on strike for better wages and working conditions and Carnegie responded by calling and hundreds of private army men with guns that they control the factory, what are you going to detail this because it's such an amazing story and if you're interested that you should look it up but it quite literally this wasn't like a modern-day strike thing where like the people with guns come in and 1/4 people to break the lines and scabs come in and go back to work no this was quite literally a battle that happened between the Striking union workers and these private military force the thing curtains that Carnegie pulled in they were beating people people work before being killed I think you told me one point that somebody found a cannon.

Daniel Forkner:

[49:37] If there were thousands of townspeople that rallied around these workers and at one point they actually even set fire to like a train car wrote it down a hill to try and hit one of the boats that the Pinkerton Army was it was crazy crazy battle.

David Torcivia:

[49:51] The early labor strikes in the United States the labor battles that went on that gave us things like the 8 hour work day the 5-day work week we're quite literally written in the blood of Strikers this is what enabled are modern labor laws that we have today and the Homestead Strike and then the Ludlow Massacre will get to in a moment or just a big part of this.

Daniel Forkner:

[50:11] Well real quick to I just thought it was interesting that this private Army that industrialists for purchasing to go around and kill Strikers around the country that company still in existence if you can. Go on their website and they have like a timeline of all their great Deeds over the years interesting Lee the Homestead Strike is not on there little timeline but, some old timey pictures of their first owners and stuff and now I guess they they offer like services to businesses like Risk Management stuff and they talk about machine learning and artificial intelligence big surprise there.

David Torcivia:

[50:41] The great but I mean this wasn't like a one-off thing so after this battle happen a few years later in 1914 several thousand miners went on strike and coal mines owned by John D Rockefeller.

Daniel Forkner:

[50:53] This is the Ludlow Massacre that you mentioned.

David Torcivia:

[50:55] Yeah they were also met with violence brought on by the Colorado National Guard which was a government Army but they were being paid not by the staple by Rockefeller himself and the national guard fired into workers Sapphire decamps killing not just minors but the women and children too.

Daniel Forkner:

[51:13] It's remarkable to me and that the demands of the miners reveal similar arrangements to those slave operations we discussed last week and as we'll see some of the labor rangements becoming more and more common in This Global Logistics Network you see the minors wanted things like the right to live outside of company-owned towns which at the time basically had their own laws and they were guarded by company guards armed with guns, and this has a lot of parallels with the slave operations we see around the world you're not allowed to leave the mind you can't leave logging camp or Corey's or factories or the truck parking lot.

David Torcivia:

[51:48] Both of these are really huge important labor conversations that will outside the scope of the show I encourage you to look into them because they're very interesting pieces of American history that are rarely talked about what established labor laws not just for the us but around the world because of the impact to happen and it just wasn't that long ago the Ludlow Massacre was just a barely over a hundred years ago this is recent history that Define the modern labor landscape today and is important part of our American history in the worldwide labor struggle.

Daniel Forkner:

[52:17] Political and economic power pass perhaps always viewed the worker and the workers right as a threat to business but nowhere is that more clear today now in the context of logistics because although in the past men like Carnegie and Rockefeller could hire personal armies to control their workers will today we have an industry that connects the functions of every single business around the globe controlling that require systemic Force across the board not just within the activities of individual companies. And although the government's violent response to the homestead Ludlow and other strikes in historical America cost public outcry as far as the creation of new laws like you mentioned David to protect workers it has also led to the illusion that the relationship between power and labor has somehow changed. It hasn't at all it's just simply been outsourced like the Cambodian garment workers we mentioned in the fashion episode who went on strike and where attacked by their police or it's hidden in plain sight like those truck drivers. And there are countless and countless similar incidents happening all over the world.

[53:21] What we see is that our global economy still depends on violence that forces people to work for far less than they are worth, but this truth that we have outsourced and hidden away it's coming back to Western Nations as this Global Logistics system we are building requires standardization across the board and what is being standardized is the separation of worker from Citizen and a stripping of Rights for the former.

David Torcivia:

[53:49] No place on Earth has this down more to a science then Dubai. Something like 90% of people who work in Dubai or not citizens their foreigners would do not have the same rights, at the United Arab Emirates citizens do in fact I think it's the law that any worker who so much as talks to Union organizer is immediately deported. What in terms of logistics Dubai recently built something called the Dubai Logistics City the major Logistics Hub attracting equally large foreign investment, and international shipping and transport companies to support the Hub they built a village and labor Village bat houses something like 85,000 beds and it's type of infrastructure custom-built solely to serve Logistics is the ideal in terms of that security idea we talked about when it comes to Logistics labor is boring easily replaceable isolated oftentimes stripped of their passport and constantly monitor.

Daniel Forkner:

[54:44] And we here in the United States we look to Hubs like the Dubai Logistics city as something to strive towards and systems that we want to replicate in our own ports. And Logistics networks back home. How do we do this we have higher legal in public standards in terms of Labor rights and we can't simply fill our porch with foreigners and threaten them with deportation the moment they talked to Union organizer, or maybe we can David maybe I'm getting ahead of ourselves but it's safe to say at least that there is enough public concern about the things that we do. That we have to find more indirect ways to do the same thing other countries do Direct.

David Torcivia:

[55:23] So the question is how do we apply the sort of thinking the United States and where the ways goes back to framing Logistics in terms of security like we discussed, any born concept there it's separating the worker from the citizen and the rights that they have to tie back both into the rights conversation from last week and also what we see going on in Dubai right now.

Workers Are Threats [55:42] So we go back in history is in the lead up to that Ludlow Massacre one of the demands made by the workers was for the mining companies to just adhere to the law. Very simple henna similar thing happened in 2002 here in the US dockworkers all along the west coast went on a safety strike after number of Dock Workers were killed due to low safety standards, workers protected by following all safety protocols.

[56:14] The Pacific Maritime Association responded by locking workers out of the ports these are people who are just following the law laid out to protect. This prompted Vice President Dick Cheney to declare the situation of threat to National Security to be clear he was calling reaction to the workers who were simply following safety Protocols of laid down by the United States. Threat to National Security. Then president of the u.s. George W bush to clear that if workers at California sports did not do what their employer told them to they will be subject to criminal charges and he would avoid the military to their location. And is Deborah Cohen points out in her book this is a perfect example of how modern Logistics requires and creates new zones new special areas were rights and laws are suspended. The president that the president establishes that the laws we have in place to protect workers do not apply to Logistics hubs. If workers are not working efficiently if they disrupt in any way the process of moving Goods companies themselves can create a crisis in this case by locking workers out and then the government will step in with the military and with the threats that go along with that to force workers. In their place.

Daniel Forkner:

[57:25] That's a crazy crazy things.

[57:33] All over the world right here in the United States and that's by simply stripping worker rights from the onset and framing that in terms of security, and this is part of a broader effort to separate economics and politics must like the example of South Africa in our debt episode if economic growth and security are seen as Noble pursuit in their own right separate from political ideologies, 10 policies that are framed in terms of growth and security are not going to receive the scrutiny they otherwise should United States under the TSA created the transportation worker identification credential, as an example of a program doing just that and this is a security clearance that workers must apply for in order to work in certain Logistics jobs. There are places in Port that you simply cannot go unless you have this credential and while this may sound like a perk at first, workers with Indy special zones are subject to constant surveillance. Biometric clearances they are fenced-off they are guarded the normal rights that workers have in the United States are denied and all of this is in the name of security. Of course in the name of security any worker can be denied or stripped of this credential for any reason in this is a clear attempt to preempt the type of Labor organizing that lead Tibet strike on the west coast is effectively the Dubai model in Disguise and in the US and Canada programs like these are being expanded too many jobs within Logistics and what will affect millions of work.

David Torcivia:

[59:02] Let's move past workers here and let me know. The show is on individuals and slavery button but really understand the situations that lead to the enabling of these systems you have to understand this large Logistics security model as a whole and Beyond the security threat that workers bows because again they are a security threat as crazy as that sounds

Borders Are Threats [59:22] another obstacle in this process is that a political borders. And when you think about it this actually makes sense it if our top priority to make sure containers of shoes can get from point A to point B as fast as possible a border between these two points represents a threat to that speed, Logistics confronts is buy some planning old models and ideas of geopolitics with entirely new ways of thinking about what it means to cross the border. And even honestly what a border is.

Daniel Forkner:

[59:50] And I just literally creating whole new zones of whole new regions that you won't find on a map of political borders. Here's an example in 2010 a Chinese company bought control of the P Reyes port in Greece for 35 years at the cost of 5 billion dollars.

[1:00:08] And since then China has been buying ports all over Europe in Spain Italy and this year they acquired the second largest port in Belgium, and of course the goal here is to expand networks of trade and give China an easier time importing their products and their containers to Europe but it's also an example of how the expansion of logistics is laying down new zones and political reasons, It Don't Fit traditional definitions of space and in this process the lines between a citizen and a worker. It's really blurry does the Dock Workers Union in Greece noted when China took control of piraeus. China has quote imported the Chinese labor model to Greece in quote, so the workers who are technically on Grease soil none-the-less are subject to Chinese labor models, union rights have been denied industry standards and wages and hours don't apply and at the same time from the same Source quote the result is that companies not run by the Chinese are being influenced by what the Chinese are doing and lowering the labor cost, and reducing workers rights in quote. So as we see the importance of logistics expand worldwide we will continue to see that the workers who make the system possible are increasingly at greater health and safety risk.

[1:01:26] They are increasingly temporary and categorized as independent contractors with little to no rights they are constantly surveilled, and they are increasingly segregated long race and class.

Democracy And Pirates

David Torcivia:

[1:01:38] So the ultimate conclusion of all of the security talk is that democracy itself is a threat, two security of egotistical systems the full of good require standardized procedures and under uptick movement people along the way that have the power to assert their own self-determination have the potential to disrupt those clothes. But I mean how do you get around democracy how do you undermine the self-determination of people and entire nations solely for the quest to deliver container boxes.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:02:10] David we started the show last week with pirates so are you ready.

David Torcivia:

[1:02:16] Bad pun aside this is what I've been going up to let's do this Daniel.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:02:21] We heard a lot David about Somali pirates a few years ago they were all over the news and we heard stories and pictures about pirates with AK-47s terrorizing innocent sea vessel.

David Torcivia:

[1:02:33] They made that movie with Tom Hanks about it.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:02:35] And it's always this image of brown people with guns terrorizing innocent white people on cruise ships this is the type of image that media loves to present.

David Torcivia:

[1:02:45] Yeah well I mean maybe it's because the brown people blowing at the bottom of the cruise ship where they serve the white people while making a dollar 75 an hour or maybe I'm being a little too blunt with that.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:02:55] Maybe David but there's a lot of Truth in that but anyway the narrative was that the modern world is simply trying to ship goods or do whatever we're trying to do. Evil primitive Africans keep trying to disrupt us for no reason and there were even media images of. Starving Africans and dying children who were dying because these Pirates were preventing white do-gooders from delivering food and humanitarian Aid to them so it's very clear Pirates ever good.

David Torcivia:

[1:03:26] Well we learn anything about Pirates last week it's that the conventional narrative that states and media like to push about them is won't predominantly fiction and modern piracy is really no difference.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:03:40] That's right David missing from all these narratives of starving children dying in the desert because Pirates prevented us from delivering them food is a missing from these narratives worth the European companies I have been illegally fishing off the coast of Somalia for years devastating the local Fisheries there and causing the local population themselves to go hungry and at the same time large multinational companies I have been dumping unbelievable amounts of toxic waste into Somali Waters but not only poison one of the most important ecosystems in the region, but also end up washing up on the shore as well.

David Torcivia:

[1:04:17] And while we might be ignorant about these crimes that have been occurring for decades the people of Somalia War. They watched as European boats came to their Waters dump toxic waste and then left with huge Halls of this illegally caught fish, just be needed to catch to survive how do you think the people responded be very naturally started to patrol their own Waters to enforce Dennis of the International Community was intentionally ignoring many of these cold Pirates were actually part of a Somalian volunteered Coast Guard and continually refer to themselves as bad but this is the point by calling these people Pirates we buy definition separate them from politics because the pirate is a criminal that exist outside of the international law. Bear State list individuals handle these people claim to represent the state of Somalia but you're in the west we know that Somalia is a failed state, a place where laws don't apply where people run Rabbit crazy and turn to things like piracy because there is no state to hold them back.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:05:13] Yeah sounds like they could use a little bit of our freedom.

David Torcivia:

[1:05:16] You're absolutely right about that Daniel and so we have been sure to send militaries in Navy's whose guards private military forces on the ships and also running their own vessels to get these Pirates away from the ships of the many companies for just trying to get to New this logistic process.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:05:31] It so inherent and calling the Pirates is the idea, that they don't have a reason for what they're doing it it's very clear like you said that they are outside the law their Lawless they don't have a political agenda here they're just Pirates because even calling them terrorist would imply that they have some political agenda and that complicates the way countries are allowed under International standards to respond.

David Torcivia:

[1:05:54] Execute Pilots to be clear.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:05:55] That's so instead we just call them Pirates and then we bomb the hell out of them and we continue to dump toxic waste and take their fee.

David Torcivia:

[1:06:02] Yeah actually since the application of security forces in these Waters to keep the international shipping Community safe what do you know those ships that were doing the illegal fishing and toxic waste dumping that have been pushed off by the threat of this quote Somali piracy will their back and bigger numbers and ever catching more fish in the ever have devastating the Somalian economy even more democracy as we like to call it worked for the people small are protected their land and Protected Their Sovereign borders and that's what a volunteer Coast Guard would be doing. And it's what they were doing but by the mere Act of applying a different label on refusing to ignore the sovereignty of these individuals and said no this is not a coast guard this is a pirate Force. We were able to strip them of their rights. Just like the mini slaves around the world just like these wait slaves in ports of the United States that migrant workers building the soccer stadiums for the World Cup and Dubai the systematic. Stripping of Rights around the world even the people in other nations were we really should have no power to do so continues and enables be systems, ultimate goal. Perpetuating this logistical system that continues to destroy the world on a number of levels both of the rights of individuals as well as the environmental cost of this concert consumerism that drives is logistics net worth.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:07:18] And so in the same way we have to separate the pursuit of economic growth. And the security of logistics from politics we also separate people from any meaningful consideration. Workers are stripped of Rights the claims of native people have on land is discredited. People are starting their geographical rights are labeled Pirates and separated from any political narrative, in the same way a factory is efficient when processes are broken down into isolated trackable and controllable cogs Logistics aims to turn the whole world into a factory where every single component is made into a lifeless cock that can be tracked. Surveilled isolated from communities of organization separated from rights and protections and made to serve the great big machine that can never stop. I can only be made to move faster and faster in what is it all for for bunch of container box.

What Can We Do?

David Torcivia:

[1:08:16] And so Daniel we spent two episodes to get here but the big question remains what can we do.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:08:24] Yes interesting David is just a day actually I was going somewhere and I happen to have NPR on and they ran the story if followed this family walking around the shopping center and I was like let's see where are these products are made of. And it was kind of like this serious little thing I call this look at a notebook that was made in Brazil That's look at a pencil and a rubber eraser where did these come from all over the world and they took a look at the shopping cart at the end of this little exploration is that all it's about 50% of our products come from somewhere else 50% or assembled in the United States and it seems to be that the point they were trying to make they said something like Trump with his trade war and his terrorist going on right now, he's attempting to keep jobs in factories in the United States but what he doesn't understand is that we have things called Supply chains and then, educated The Listener on what is supply chain isn't and why we can't have things unless they come from other parts of the world end.

David Torcivia:

[1:09:21] I bet it started something like this so first you have a slave in one country or maybe not.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:09:37] It doesn't mean it has to or that it should look the very first commercial shipping container to cross the ocean did so in 1966. That's not that long ago it's not like the world has always been organized in terms of global supply chain. This is the world we are creating we have a choice to go a different way to say look we don't need this sprawling global system. Isolates and segments and enslave people just so that we can have a product or a shirt every single day at our fingertips anytime we want.

[1:10:13] We don't have to have that in in fact, as much as we Center National Security around the circulation of good this ultimately harms us and makes us more insecure the more we rely wherever we are the more we rely on Supply chains that are interdependent across sprawling location. We will always be insecure and that's in fact why this emphasis on securing Goods has taken Center Stage for National Security because we are so vulnerable, when the only food we eat comes from halfway across the world that is in security that is what puts us at risk and that is what creates slavery. So again why can we do it well I mean it's part of this continuing conversation we have on the shell which is we must scale back we must rely more on the communities around us we must get our food we must get our resources from places that we can. See that the places that actually matter to us the more we Outsource everything abroad the more we Outsource the supply change the more destruction we are leveling against the world and that ultimately will always come back home.

David Torcivia:

[1:11:20] And like we've mentioned in several of these shows much of the power to stop these systems. Dixie systems Hindi abuses that these systems enable rest in the hands of those make up the systems themselves in the world of logistics these are the truckers of the world uses the Dock Workers, each of the employees work to enable these Global logistical systems. Didn't move our world remove those container boxes from point A to point B disperse widgets from factories across the globe to your doorstep. And they are threats to the National Security of Every Nation on earth that is how States see them as a global security threat. And if they realize that power that is already been labeled and given to them by the various states of the world and make use of that to make the world a better place. Well then we'll all be living in a better world because of them. In simple words of Joanne whip adjust ski speaking at the 2010 Dock Workers conference in Charleston South Carolina the people who move the world can also stop.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:12:42] As always David that is a lot to think about.

David Torcivia:

[1:12:46] You can learn more about all these topics read about these poor truck drivers dockworkers the Ludlow strike and much more as well as a full transcript of this episode on our website at ashes ashes. Org.

Daniel Forkner:

[1:12:59] And do check out that Rick Owens book that that did life of logistics it's really great. A lot of time and research goes into making these episodes possible and we will never use ads to support this show so if you appreciate this show and would like us to keep going you are listening can support us by recommending us to a friend, or giving us a review. Also we have an email address it's contact at ashes ashes. Org when courage you to send us your thoughts positive or negative or read them and we appreciate it.

David Torcivia:

[1:13:31] You can also find us on your favorite social media Network at ashes ashes cast next week we turn away from the world of Labor and instead look back at the environment and the world around us but until then this is ashes ashes.