Episode 81 - This Is Not a Place of Honor

It has threatened to start wars and it has (arguably) finished them; its effects and influences can be found throughout our world today; it has nearly limitless power for creation and destruction; and according to some people it may be our only hope. This week (and the last one too) we are digging deep into the controversial world of nuclear power generation. Over the course of two episodes we'll explore the basics of this technology (which is coincidentally where most other podcasts and videos seem to stop) and go from there to really truly explore the pros and the cons - including plenty that you've probably never considered. Is this technology our best hope for a carbon free future? Or is it another example of too many promises and technological optimism clouding out the realities of our situation?

All this and more in a special two part series on everything nuclear power.

full transcript available

Subscribe now on: iTunes | Google Play | Stitcher | Soundcloud | Spotify | RSS | or search "Ashes Ashes" on your favorite podcast app.

Chapters

  • 12:16 Unexamined Costs
  • 17:25 Megatons to Megawatts
  • 24:16 Thoughts from former chairman of US NRC
  • 30:01 Construction costs
  • 34:24 Waste
  • 36:24 Church Rock
  • 41:17 Waste disposal plans
  • 44:45 Uranium-235 reserves
  • 46:14 How do you communicate with the future?
  • 56:47 What choice do we have?

Listener Comments

Good clarification on radiation, contamination, and irradiated.

You could go even further though on radiation and clear up some misconceptions about radiation...

There is non ionizing (lower energy) electromagnetic radiation. Radio waves, microwaves, infrared, and up through the visible light spectrum. This is all inherently harmless to life... Unless the intensity is too high and it basically cooks you.

There is also ionizing (higher energy) electromagnetic radiation. Ultra violet, x-rays, gamma radiation, up through cosmic radiation. This radiation has enough energy per photon to knock electrons up energy levels and initiate chemical bond changes. You hear about this type of radiation causing cancer because it causes chemical reactions in DNA. Fission plants and dual tend to produce a lot of gamma radiation. This is the type of radio we use on food to sterilize it and it can't make the food radioactive.

Next there is particle radation...

Alpha radiation is essentially helium nucleases that decay of larger radioactive elements. It can ionize what it bumps into but is blocked by a few centimeters of air or even just skin.

Beta radiation is basically electrons that shoot off a radioactive nucleus. They can travel about a meter in air and also can ionize what they bump into. In addition they can also cause the release of gamma or x-rays when absorbed in some cases.

Finally there is Neuton radiation. This is produced by radioactive decay and by fission and is was sustains fission. It had a much longer penetration and can ionize what it bumps into. A lot of water or concrete is needed to shield it. Not only that, it can actually make regular material radioactive over time by being absorbed by nucleuses.

Bonus: You might also hear about neutrino radiation. These are exotic particals that come out of Nuclear reactions. The sun makes a massive massive amount of them. Luckily they effectively never interact with nornal matter and so basically can be ignored.

  • JackOCat

Sources

@misc{Allison Meier_2016, title={A Nuclear Warning Designed to Last 10,000 Years}, url={https://hyperallergic.com/312318/a-nuclear-warning-designed-to-last-10000-years/}, journal={Hyperallergic}, author={Allison Meier}, year={2016}, month={Jul} } @misc{Anne-Marie Corley_2014, title={A Farewell to Arms}, url={https://www.technologyreview.com/s/529861/a-farewell-to-arms/}, author={Anne-Marie Corley}, year={2014}, month={Aug} } @misc{Associated Press_2019, title={US to label nuclear waste as less dangerous to quicken cleanup}, url={https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/05/us-to-label-nuclear-waste-as-less-dangerous-to-quicken-cleanup}, author={Associated Press}, year={2019}, month={Jun} } @misc{Ben Knight_2011, title={Merkel shuts down seven nuclear reactors}, url={https://www.dw.com/en/merkel-shuts-down-seven-nuclear-reactors/a-14912184}, author={Ben Knight}, year={2011}, month={Mar} } @book{Bernard L. Cohen_1990, title={The Nuclear Energy Option}, url={http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/index.html}, publisher={Plenum Press}, author={Bernard L. Cohen}, year={1990} } @article{Berry_Tolley_Naziemiec_Burandt_Gage_Yu_Blondell_2013, title={Nuclear Fuel Reprocessing: Technological, Social, and Economic Problems}, url={http://franke.uchicago.edu/energy2013/group6.pdf}, journal={Energy and Energy Policy}, author={Berry, Professors R Stephen and Tolley, George S and Naziemiec, Magdalena and Burandt, Josh and Gage, Sam and Yu, Stephanie and Blondell, Molly}, year={2013} } @misc{brico bio_2016, title={How to Send a Message 10,000 Years Into the Future}, url={http://www.theraycatsolution.com/}, author={brico bio}, year={2016} } @article{Brugge_deLemos_Bui_2007, title={The Sequoyah Corporation Fuels Release and the Church Rock Spill: Unpublicized Nuclear Releases in American Indian Communities}, volume={97}, ISSN={0090-0036}, DOI={10.2105/AJPH.2006.103044}, number={9}, journal={American Journal of Public Health}, author={Brugge, Doug and deLemos, Jamie L. and Bui, Cat}, year={2007}, month={Sep}, pages={1595–1600} } @misc{CBS_2017, title={$25 billion nuclear projects at Georgia’s troubled Plant Vogtle to continue}, url={https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nuclear-projects-at-georgias-plant-vogtle-to-continue/}, author={CBS}, year={2017}, month={Dec} } @misc{Charles Yulish_2005, title={Megatons to Megawatts Eliminates Equivalent of 10,000 Nuclear Warheads}, url={https://web.archive.org/web/20130426130245/http://www.usec.com/news/megatons-megawatts-eliminates-equivalent-10000-nuclear-warheads}, author={Charles Yulish}, year={2005}, month={Sep} } @book{Cindy Milstein_2017, title={Rebellious Mourning}, ISBN={1-84935-284-4}, url={https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34146304-rebellious-mourning}, author={Cindy Milstein}, year={2017}, month={Sep} } @misc{Dan Robitzski_2019, title={Climate change may cause Fukushima-style meltdowns in the US}, url={https://futurism.com/the-byte/climate-change-cause-fukushima-style-meltdowns}, journal={Futurism}, author={Dan Robitzski}, year={2019}, month={Apr} } @misc{Daniel Jassby_2018, title={ITER is a showcase ... for the drawbacks of fusion energy}, url={https://thebulletin.org/2018/02/iter-is-a-showcase-for-the-drawbacks-of-fusion-energy/}, journal={Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists}, author={Daniel Jassby}, year={2018}, month={Feb} } @misc{David Abel_2017, title={Legacy of Seabrook nuclear protest debated - The Boston Globe}, url={https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/04/28/forty-years-later-nuclear-power-opponents-mull-results-their-fight/fsBR6Hokv8Pfs8yTvvJuIL/story.html}, author={David Abel}, year={2017}, month={Apr} } @misc{Dawn Stover_2014, title={More megatons to megawatts}, url={https://thebulletin.org/2014/02/more-megatons-to-megawatts/}, journal={Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists}, author={Dawn Stover}, year={2014}, month={Feb} } @misc{Dpeartment of Energy_2009, title={Oklo: Natural Nuclear Reactors}, url={https://web.archive.org/web/20090825013752/http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/doeymp0010.shtml}, author={Dpeartment of Energy}, year={2009}, month={Aug} } @misc{Ed Komenda_2019, title={“It will poison everything.” Native Americans protest Yucca Mountain Nuclear Waste site}, url={https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2019/05/22/yucca-mountain-nuclear-waste-nevada-test-site/3694806002/}, journal={Reno Gazette Journal}, author={Ed Komenda}, year={2019}, month={May} } @misc{Erin Marquis_2014, title={Nuclear-powered concept cars from the Atomic Age}, url={https://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/17/nuclear-powered-atomic-age-classic-cars/}, journal={Autoblog}, author={Erin Marquis}, year={2014}, month={Jul} } @misc{Galina Raguzina_2014, title={Holy grail or epic fail? Russia readies to commission first plutonium breeder against uninspiring global track record}, url={https://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issues/nuclear-russia/2014-08-holy-grail-epic-fail-russia-readies-commission-first-plutonium-breeder-uninspiring-global-track-record}, author={Galina Raguzina}, year={2014}, month={Aug} } @article{General Atomic_1964, title={Nuclear Pulse Space vehicle Study}, url={https://web.archive.org/web/20060103021446/https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770085619_1977085619.pdf}, journal={Conceptual Vehical Designs and Operational Systems}, author={General Atomic}, year={1964}, month={Sep} } @misc{Geuss_2018, title={Mapping what it would take for a renaissance for nuclear energy}, url={https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/mapping-what-it-would-take-for-a-renaissance-for-nuclear-energy/}, author={Geuss, Megan}, year={2018}, month={Sep} } @misc{Gregory Jaczko_2019, title={I Oversaw the US Nuclear Power Industry. Now I Think It Should Be Banned.}, url={https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/05/17/i-oversaw-us-nuclear-power-industry-now-i-think-it-should-be-banned}, journal={Common Dreams}, author={Gregory Jaczko}, year={2019}, month={May} } @misc{Harold Feiveson_Zia Mian_M V Ramana_Frank von Hippel_2011, title={Managing nuclear spent fuel: Policy lessons from a 10-country study}, url={https://thebulletin.org/2011/06/managing-nuclear-spent-fuel-policy-lessons-from-a-10-country-study/}, author={Harold Feiveson and Zia Mian and M V Ramana and Frank von Hippel}, year={2011}, month={Jun} } @misc{IAEA_2017, title={International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES)}, url={https://www.iaea.org/topics/emergency-preparedness-and-response-epr/international-nuclear-radiological-event-scale-ines}, author={IAEA}, year={2017}, month={Nov} } @misc{Indian Point Energy Center_2019, title={Entergy Agrees to Post-Shutdown Sale of Indian Point Energy Center to Holtec International}, url={http://www.safesecurevital.com/entergy-agrees-to-post-shutdown-sale-of-indian-point-energy-center-to-holtec-international/}, author={Indian Point Energy Center}, year={2019}, month={Apr} } @misc{James Temple_2018, title={A nuclear startup will fold after failing to deliver reactors that run on spent fuel}, url={https://www.technologyreview.com/f/612193/nuclear-startup-to-fold-after-failing-to-deliver-reactor-that-ran-on-spent-fuel/}, author={James Temple}, year={2018}, month={Sep} } @misc{Kathleen Trauth_Stephen Hora_Robert Guzowski_1993, title={Expert Judgement on Markers to Deter Inadvertent Human Intrusion into the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant}, url={https://prod-ng.sandia.gov/techlib-noauth/access-control.cgi/1992/921382.pdf}, author={Kathleen Trauth and Stephen Hora and Robert Guzowski}, year={1993}, month={Nov} } @article{Kharecha_Hansen_2013, title={Prevented Mortality and Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Historical and Projected Nuclear Power}, volume={47}, ISSN={0013-936X}, DOI={10.1021/es3051197}, number={9}, journal={Environmental Science & Technology}, author={Kharecha, Pushker A. and Hansen, James E.}, year={2013}, month={May}, pages={4889–4895} } @book{Kyle Weinersmith_Zack Weinersmith_2017, title={Soonish: Ten Emerging Technologies That’ll Improve and/or Ruin Everything}, url={https://smbc-comics.com/soonish/lostchapter/index.html}, publisher={Penguin Press}, author={Kyle Weinersmith and Zack Weinersmith}, year={2017} } @misc{Laura S H Holgate_Robert E Schultz_2008, title={In support of the Megatons to Megawatts program}, url={https://web.archive.org/web/20110708162741/http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/op-eds/support-of-the-megatons-to-megawatts-program}, author={Laura S H Holgate and Robert E Schultz}, year={2008}, month={Oct} } @article{Laurie Wirt_1994, title={Radioactivity in the environment; a case study of the Puerco and Little Colorado River basins, Arizona and New Mexico}, url={https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/wri944192}, DOI={10.3133/wri944192}, journal={USGS Water Resources Investigations Report}, author={Laurie Wirt}, year={1994} } @misc{Lazard_2015, title={Lazard’s Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis - Version 9.0}, url={https://www.lazard.com/media/2390/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-analysis-90.pdf}, author={Lazard}, year={2015}, month={Nov} } @misc{Lisa Zyga_2011, title={Why nuclear power will never supply the world’s energy needs}, url={https://phys.org/news/2011-05-nuclear-power-world-energy.html}, author={Lisa Zyga}, year={2011}, month={May} } @book{Mark Z Jacobson_2019, title={100% Clean, Renewable Energy and Storage for Everything}, url={https://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/NatGasVsWWS&coal.pdf}, publisher={Cambridge University Press}, author={Mark Z Jacobson}, year={2019}, month={Jun} } @misc{Mark Z. Jacobson_2019, title={The 7 reasons why nuclear energy is not the answer to solve climate change}, url={https://www.leonardodicaprio.org/the-7-reasons-why-nuclear-energy-is-not-the-answer-to-solve-climate-change/}, author={Mark Z. Jacobson}, year={2019}, month={Jun} } @article{Markandya_Wilkinson_2007, title={Electricity generation and health}, volume={370}, ISSN={01406736}, DOI={10.1016/S0140-6736(07)61253-7}, number={9591}, journal={The Lancet}, author={Markandya, Anil and Wilkinson, Paul}, year={2007}, month={Sep}, pages={979–990} } @misc{Max-Planck-Gesellschaft_2012, title={Severe nuclear reactor accidents likely every 10 to 20 years, European study suggests}, url={https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120522134942.htm}, journal={ScienceDaily}, author={Max-Planck-Gesellschaft}, year={2012}, month={May} } @misc{Mike Dulong_2018, title={Earthquake a reminder that Indian Point is a clear and present danger}, url={https://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/opinion/valley-views/2018/02/10/earthquake-reminder-indian-point-clear-present-danger/324245002/}, author={Mike Dulong}, year={2018}, month={Feb} } @misc{Mike Walker_2016, title={How the Atomic Age was Imagined in the Soviet Union}, url={https://nuclearstreet.com/pro_nuclear_power_blogs/b/science-history-nuclear/archive/2016/10/28/how-the-atomic-age-was-imagined-in-the-soviet-union}, author={Mike Walker}, year={2016}, month={Oct} } @misc{Mufson_2017, title={Westinghouse files for bankruptcy, in a blow to nuclear power industry}, url={https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/westinghouse-files-for-bankruptcy-in-a-blow-to-nuclear-power-industry/2017/03/29/4a64b6f2-1338-11e7-833c-503e1f6394c9_story.html}, journal={Washington Post}, author={Mufson, Steven}, year={2017}, month={Mar} } @misc{Nuclear Regulatory Commission_2017, title={Financial Assurance for Decommissioning}, url={https://www.nrc.gov/waste/decommissioning/finan-assur.html}, author={Nuclear Regulatory Commission}, year={2017}, month={Aug} } @misc{Nuclear Regulatory Commission_2018, title={Backgrounder on Decommissioning Nuclear Power Plants}, url={https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/decommissioning.html}, author={Nuclear Regulatory Commission}, year={2018}, month={Aug} } @misc{NY Riverkeeper_2018, title={Indian Point Closure FAQ}, url={https://www.riverkeeper.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Indian-Point-FAQ-Jan-2018.docx.pdf}, author={NY Riverkeeper}, year={2018}, month={Jan} } @misc{Phys Org_2018, title={First EPR nuclear reactor goes on stream in China}, url={https://phys.org/news/2018-06-epr-nuclear-reactor-stream-china.html}, author={Phys Org}, year={2018}, month={Jun} } @misc{Plumer_2017, title={U.S. Nuclear Comeback Stalls as Two Reactors Are Abandoned}, url={https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/climate/nuclear-power-project-canceled-in-south-carolina.html}, journal={The New York Times}, author={Plumer, Brad}, year={2017}, month={Jul} } @misc{PwC_2018, title={Nuclear decommissioning trust funds}, url={https://www.pwc.com/us/en/industries/capital-projects-infrastructure/library/nuclear-decommissioning-trust-funds.html}, author={PwC}, year={2018} } @misc{Rebecca Riffkin_2016, title={For First Time, Majority in U.S. Oppose Nuclear Energy}, url={https://news.gallup.com/poll/190064/first-time-majority-oppose-nuclear-energy.aspx}, author={Rebecca Riffkin}, year={2016}, month={Mar} } @misc{Reuters_2019, title={Bill Gates’ nuclear venture hits snag amid US restrictions on China deals}, url={https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/energy-commodities/bill-gates-nuclear-venture-hits-snag-amid-us-restrictions-on-china-deals-wsj}, author={Reuters}, year={2019}, month={Jan} } @misc{Sonal Patel_2018, title={Plagued by Grim Challenges, Vogtle Nuclear Expansion Lags Behind Schedule, Says Oversight Consultant}, url={https://www.powermag.com/plagued-by-grim-challenges-vogtle-nuclear-expansion-lags-behind-schedule-says-oversight-consultant/}, journal={POWER Magazine}, author={Sonal Patel}, year={2018}, month={Dec} } @article{Sovacool_2008, title={Valuing the greenhouse gas emissions from nuclear power: A critical survey}, volume={36}, ISSN={03014215}, DOI={10.1016/j.enpol.2008.04.017}, number={8}, journal={Energy Policy}, author={Sovacool, Benjamin K.}, year={2008}, month={Aug}, pages={2950–2963} } @misc{Stanford University_George Washington University_2018, title={Reset of America’s Nuclear Waste Management, Strategy and Policy}, url={https://fsi-live.s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/reset_report_2018_final.pdf}, author={Stanford University and George Washington University}, year={2018}, month={Oct} } @misc{Temple_2017, title={Nuclear energy startup Transatomic backtracks on key promises}, url={https://www.technologyreview.com/s/603731/nuclear-energy-startup-transatomic-backtracks-on-key-promises/}, author={Temple, James}, year={2017}, month={Feb} } @misc{United States Department of Energy_2009, title={Permanent Markers Implmentation Plan}, url={https://www.wipp.energy.gov/library/PermanentMarkersImplementationPlan.pdf}, author={United States Department of Energy}, year={2009}, month={Aug} } @misc{University of California_2017, title={The fight to rethink (and reinvent) nuclear power}, url={https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poPLSgbSO6k}, author={University of California}, year={2017}, month={May} } @misc{World Nuclear Association_2017a, title={Thorium}, url={http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/thorium.aspx}, author={World Nuclear Association}, year={2017}, month={Feb} } @misc{World Nuclear Association_2017b, title={Nuclear Fuel Cycle Overview}, url={http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/introduction/nuclear-fuel-cycle-overview.aspx}, author={World Nuclear Association}, year={2017}, month={Mar} } @misc{World Nuclear Association_2017c, title={In Situ Leach Mining (ISL) of Uranium}, url={http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/in-situ-leach-mining-of-uranium.aspx}, author={World Nuclear Association}, year={2017}, month={Oct} } @misc{World Nuclear Association_2018, title={Uranium Supplies: Supply of Uranium}, url={http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/uranium-resources/supply-of-uranium.aspx}, author={World Nuclear Association}, year={2018}, month={Dec} } @misc{World Nuclear Association_2019a, title={Nuclear Power Economics}, url={http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/economic-aspects/economics-of-nuclear-power.aspx}, author={World Nuclear Association}, year={2019}, month={Apr} } @misc{World Nuclear Association_2019b, title={Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide}, url={http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide.aspx}, author={World Nuclear Association}, year={2019}, month={Jun} }

Published 04-07-2019 02:22